Ranking Pixar: 7-1

(Editor’s note: Save for some slight editing, rephrasing and spelling/grammar, the following conversation remains largely unedited. It also contains spoilers, and-for the sake of length-has been chopped up into 3 parts.)

(Part 1 is here.)

(Part 2 is here.)

#7 time!

Moving on, my #7 pick is, reluctantly, Finding Nemo. 

Putting this movie at number seven is kind of gutting to me, I consider this to be some of Pixar’s best, but, as has been established, the second half of this list is some truly stiff competition. Finding Nemo is an incredible achievement in animation and storytelling, taking us on a Dante’s Inferno style journey across the ocean. This movie gives its characters and themes lots of room to breathe and the whole vibe just really, really works for me. The pacing is phenomenal too, it does a great job juggling its A and B plots, really selling us on Marlin and Nemo’s relationship despite barely showing them together on screen.

My #s 7-5 are all almost a dead tie.

I see. I actually find it interesting how in a sea of Pixar's greats, #7 for your list would take place in a literal body of water.

Yuk-yuk-yuk!

I even remember seeing a news clip on TV showing how Pixar did all their water effects. They used an empty fish tank and kept dropping other stuff in it. Considering how water is hard to animate, that's impressive.

For a movie made in 2003 to compete with movies made 17 years later in water effects is truly astounding.

Indeed. But that's why Pixar's the best at what they do.

Indeed!

My #7 spot is reserved for Toy Story 4, aka the movie no one asked for, yet surprised everyone anyway.

It's weird how people didn't think it'd work. Andy's arc may have ended in Toy Story 3, but Woody's hadn't. So not only does this movie bring back Bo Peep in an expanded role, it also manages to give Woody that closure post-Andy. And it does so with a finale that actually got me to cry for the first time in a Toy Story movie, which, by the way, wasn't even the first time the movie got me to cry as is.

I was honestly not looking forward to this movie, like, at all. I thought that Toy Story 3 ended the saga on a high note and provided closure for everyone who had grown up with the first three films. Turning Woody into an empty nester was something I don’t think many people considered, but I’m glad we saw it!

Indeed.

Can we just focus on Bo Peep for a minute? Not only is she now the best part of a Toy Story movie, even if it took over 2 decades to make that happen, but her sheep actually have names now: Billy, Goat and Gruff. It also helps that she has believable motivations for why she'd become the way she is, having been pawned off from owner to owner in the 9 years since the opening scene (speaking of, what a way to open!) She also has her own ragtag group of friends, including the always amazing Duke Caboom (who steals every scene he's in and is easily Keanu Reeves's best role ever.)

Oh, and having Key and Peele in this was also a delight.

Yeah, this movie had a delightful cast of characters. I put off watching it for a long time because I thought it would be sadder. Quite the contrary, this movie is the funniest Toy Story has ever been.

It's still pretty sad, though. I think Gabby Gabby in particular made me cry with her resolution. And Kudos to Pixar for actually going all-in with her as well.

Yeah, this movie has some pretty hard hitting consequences and a lot of...disturbing imagery, actually. Like, man, those dummies are mesmerizing to watch, but also completely haunting.

I know people are critical of Bonnie for neglecting Woody like that, but what'd we honestly expect? She's a little kid, and she's not Andy, so it makes sense that she'd turn to other toys instead. Even if they're made of craft material and a discarded spork. (Seriously, Forky brings up so many questions that I don't think the writers were prepared for.)

My only critique of this movie, which holds it down ever so slightly, is actually twofold: one, most of the side-characters from the previous film get little to do. And two, there are way too many contrivances surrounding Bo Peep's sudden reappearance and the RV managing to stay in one location for most of the film.

I think the writers are wholly aware of the implications of Forky, and they do an excellent job of playing them for laughs. The scenario, barring the craft-toy being suicidal, seemed very relatable. I agree the road trip aspect was the weakest part of the movie, though. But I’ll have more to say on this in a bit.

Fair enough.

Next?

My #6 pick is Coco, aka that movie where Disney tried to trademark a Mexican holiday.

The 2010's were rough for Pixar creatively, but Coco was a breath of fresh air in 2017. It also centres around something near and dear to my heart: passion in artistry. Miguel is a struggling musician stuck with a family who hates music, and he has to contend with that in both the living and dead worlds. He's really the backbone that makes this movie work, and he even manages to heal both sides of his family by being himself. Also, that end song? I've dealt with dementia patients before as a volunteer in a geriatric hospital, and I can confirm that music brings them back to life in ways that medicine can't.

What puts this higher than Toy Story 4 is that all the side-characters get something to do. What stops it from getting higher is how predictable a lot of its plot beats are. It's like Pixar had a brilliant idea and a brilliant world, yet forgot to actually make the foundation more interesting. The biggest casualty of this is the villain. Ignoring how Coco came out right around the time that John Lasseter was revealed to be a creep, making this movie feel slightly awkward, Ernesto de la Cruz is such an obvious twist-villain that I called it even before Miguel met him.

Still, I have to hand it to Pixar for making their first official-unofficial musical.

My #6 pick is actually Coco as well, for largely the same reasons. 

Disney trying to trademark the holiday, stealing the likeness of a real person, and John Lasseter departing make this movie a bit uncomfortable for me. In spite of all the production scandal, this film brought a lot of positive attention to a culture that’s been increasingly stigmatized in the country that made the film. I love everything about the movie’s aesthetic, Miguel and his family, and, of course, the film’s portrayal of death.

I agree that I would have liked to see more of this world we were introduced to because it feels like there’s more to see. It all seems so rich and vibrant and expansive.

Honestly, I was unaware of the stealing of likeness, though given the lawsuit with Cicely Daniher over Onward's van design, I'm not surprised.

Yeah, exactly the same deal. I have mixed feelings about Onward for that reason as well. But Onward didn’t have the benefit of “Poco Loco” being such a bop.

I much preferred "La Llorona", even though that's a real piece of Latin music. It's also interesting how "Remember Me" is a character on its own, being a song that evolves to fit the mood.

Yeah, the way Miguel’s relationship to music changes as he works through his feelings is incredibly done.

And yeah, enough praise can't be said for that tearjerker at the end.

I guess you can move on with your #5 pick.

Alright! For my #5 pick: Toy Story 3. 

Toy Story 3 is to Toy Story 2 as Toy Story 2 was to Toy Story. Everything Toy Story 2 left implied, its sequel expanded upon and explored. Woody’s accepted the fact that Andy will move on someday? Cool. Time for Andy to actually move on. See how well you cope now, tough guy. A toy with no child is just trash? Let’s have them almost be incinerated, holding hands as they accept that their lives are coming to an end! You know, for kids!

Oh God, that incinerator scene. I still get nightmares about that sometimes...

I didn’t see what was so scary about it until I got a bit older and realized the implications. The scary part wasn’t that they almost died, as a kid I thought “they’ll be fine,” and I was right. The scary part is that they accepted their inevitable demise.

I remember Cineplex did a 100 years of film tribute a while back, and one of the actors they got for their montage was a 7 year-old boy talking about that scene. But yeah, that's a dark, DARK movie. I'm amazed that it wasn't rated PG, as I don't think it was appropriate for anyone under the age of 10.

I have not watched it in...God, I don’t even know how long. I have to be prepared to view it. It was so hard to experience, like I said, it made me hold off on seeing Toy Story 4. 2019 was way too rough a year for me to experience that again.

I remember watching it with my Bubbie on my mom's side, and she whispered to me on several occasions, "This is too scary for children."

Especially kids who grew up with the other two films and love those characters.

Yep!

The real question is, where does Kingdom Hearts III fit in the Toy Story timeline? We know it’s before Toy Story 3, but after Toy Story 2. And it’s canon.

My #5 pick goes to Finding Nemo.

It was tough trying to put this over my #4 spot, but it lost in the end. I was 13 when this movie came out, and it still scared the shit out of me at parts. But that just made it cooler in my eyes! It's basically an odyssey predicated around losing a child, something made worse by Marlin's backstory in the opening scene. You don't get more hardcore than that.

But it's not all bitter, though. This is, without a doubt, one of Pixar's funniest films, made better by it not being entirely predicated on slapstick humour. Plus, Dory's one of the funniest creations put to film, made better by Ellen DeGeneres selling the hell out of her, and she was so good that she actually made me excited for Finding Dory. She also bounces perfectly off of Marlin.

By the way, when life gets you down, you know what you gotta do?

Sigh Keep swimming.

Just keep swimming, just keep swimming...

Like I said, I was gutted to have Finding Nemo so low on my list. Consider my previous 3 entries a near tie.

Did I mention that the movie's insanely quotable?

I used to have to watch the barracuda scene through my fingers when I was little.

I'd call you a novice, but Bruce's relapse was also pretty disturbing. I've been there, it ain't pretty!

You have a fish blood problem?

Um...yeah, let's use that to describe it. (Addiction isn't fun, people.)

Right, uh...fish are friends! Not food! So on and so forth.

My #4 pick is one you covered before, but it's The Incredibles.

This barely won out over Finding Nemo, people. BARELY.

That said, this is easily my favourite Brad Bird film, and arguably my second-favourite superhero movie after The Dark Knight. So much about this movie is amazing: the action scenes are to the point, yet fun to watch. I actually struggle with which one I like more: the one with the jet, or Dash's run across Nomanisan Island. The characters are also uniquely powered to their roles, and the running commentary on superheroes is so relevant now that it's actually scary. And the music is some of Michael Giacchino's best work, which is interesting considering this was his first film score.

By the way, track down the short "Jack-Jack Attack" if you can. It's just as great a short film as The Incredibles is a movie.

Ah man, “Jack-Jack Attack!” There’s something from my childhood. Yeah, like I said, this movie has gotten more relevant over time. This movie, since you’ve been mentioning it for others, is insanely quotable. It has some very sharply written dialogue.

"BEHOLD, THE UNDERMINER! I AM BENEATH YOU, BUT NOTHING IS BENEATH ME!" I love The Underminer so damn much!

“WHERE IS MY SUPER SUIT?”

"PUT A FIELD AROUND US NOW!" I can do this forever, but...

I actually wish I'd seen this in theatres, since I get the feeling that the audience would've clapped at the end. But we were in the process of moving at the time, so...

Yeah, I’d definitely trade seeing Incredibles 2 in theaters for the first one.

I will die on my hill and proclaim that both are good movies, but whatever. What's your #4?

My #4 is Up. 

This movie has one of the best openings in any movie ever. Period. Beyond the first 20 minutes, Up is a great adventure movie about an old man learning to overcome grief through connecting with youth. It’s whimsical, well directed, well animated, phenomenally acted, funny, and seeing Mr. Fredricksen find his zest for life again is nothing short of triumphant. He is a phenomenally realized protagonist, and I thought the way he learned to let go of his pain is an incredibly poignant story and a very important life lesson.

Up is a really sad movie, isn't it? But I actually thought the scrapbook scene in the third-act was more heartbreaking than the opening (the opening is still a killer, though. Especially since I still have two living grandparents on my mom's side.) I also like how the movie indicates the passage of time. Check out Carl's facial hair, man!

I also like how they visually indicate his change of heart through him shedding his stuffy brown suit as the film progresses.

And his posture improves! So many great minutiae that take multiple viewings to appreciate.

And of course, who could forget Dug?

Definitely! Best boy ever!

And now we get to the top 3. I'm sure everyone's excited. I know I am!

As am I! My #3 pick goes to: Toy Story 4. 

I haven’t had enough time with this movie to decide if it’s as great as its predecessors on its own merits, but I’m putting it here because I think it represents what makes all of the Toy Story movies so great. I’m feeling like a broken record, but it takes small ideas from older movies and breathes life into them in a way that feels like a natural progression of the series’ themes. We’ve asked before if a toy without a child is any better than trash, so why don’t we make a movie where a child makes a toy out of trash? We’ve established that Woody doesn’t understand how a toy could live without a child, so let’s make a movie where his understanding of that relationship is pushed to his limit?

It is incredibly rare for a series of four films to have such narrative cohesion, and Toy Story 4 really does feel like the perfect, bittersweet ending to this wonderful animated saga, so it gets my number three spot.

It’s also gut-bustingly funny. By far the funniest Toy Story movie in my opinion, actually. Bo Peep is delightful, Combat Carl from the shorts gets a cameo, Duke Caboom is full of great one liners, hell, even the Bensons turn out to be misunderstood sweethearts. That is to say nothing of Key and Peele’s contributions, and of course, the heart and soul of this movie, Forky.

This movie has heart. Unlike Toy Story 3, it manages to stay warm and cozy while it explores its themes. It’s soft...I guess you could call it, my trash!

I remember once seeing a video on YouTube that mentioned that Woody's entire arc in these movies could be summed up in a single speech in the first movie. It makes a lot of sense that, after everything that Woody's gone through in the previous movies, the natural progression is him learning to move on from having an owner. The ending becomes that much more bittersweet because of it.

Also, did you pick up on the motifs from the franchise being played together in the closing scene? Because I did, and it was a kick to the heart.

Oh God, that closing scene.

If there was ever a Pixar moment on-par with the ending to Grave of the Fireflies in sheer, raw emotion, that was it. I also like how the antagonist is a misunderstood and neglected doll who finally gets her overdue love at the end. That was a nice subversion of Pixar's biggest shortcoming: the twist-villain.

Yeah, I was really happy to have an actual antagonist. I miss good movie villains, man. I really appreciated how Gabby Gabby and the dummies were designed to be unnerving at the beginning, but easily transitioned to cute once you got to know them. Speaking of unnerving things that get progressively cuter, there were oodles of cameos from some of Pixar’s oldest shorts.

Yes, like Tinny.

Tinny!

It was nice to see him again in beautiful, photorealistic 4K.

He’s aged magnificently. I wonder what his secret is…

The last thing I feel I have to talk about in depth here would be Ducky and Bunny. I thought they were going to be a lot less funny than they were, despite being an avid fan of Key and Peele. I didn’t expect the writing to utilize their comedic timing so well. The scene that really won me over was the key sequence. They just play so well off of Buzz, who was also great in this movie.

Let's not forget The Plush Rush montage. Easily an example of dark comedy.

The comedy in this film relied a lot on subversion of expectation, and it’s a testament to the film makers that the montage kept me guessing.

Yeah! The final bit in that montage had me rolling. I’m also a sucker for drawn out gags, so...

The end credits got my entire theatre in an uproar of laughter. Especially with Keanu Reeves's best "whoah" in his entire career.

He really Canada...

My #3 goes to Up, a movie I actually appreciate more with each subsequent viewing.

It says a lot when a movie this unbelievably silly gets me to cry three times: twice in the "Married Life" montage, and once when Carl rummages through Ellie's old scrapbook. But while "grumpy old man ties balloons to his house and floats to South America" is a ludicrous premise for a film, and the movie's definitely ludicrous, Up's actually a very sad movie when you stop and think on it. Not that you think about that often, since this movie makes an alpha dog's voice sound like a chipmunk.

Also, I kinda like how the film's villain is a crusty old man consumed by desire. Ignoring how he's a perfect foil to Carl, Charles Muntz's advanced age also subverts the notion that old people are harmless. He also plays off well against Carl with all the geriatric jokes in the climactic battle. He and Ernesto de la Cruz are classic examples of "never meet your heroes".

In life, or in death, apparently. Up is definitely a movie about the subtle things. The plot is incredibly thin, but the character writing and animation are phenomenal. I don’t actually have all that much to say about this movie, because I don’t actually think there’s all that much to say. All the little things we’ve talked about are just really, really good. The whole film is just good.

I think what holds this one down a bit is how silly it is. I'm not normally a big fan of MacGuffin chase movies, I find them bizarre and silly as hell, but somehow the charm of this one surpasses that. Still, a lot of the plot points definitely feel a little weird and contrived (an alpha bird AND a talking dog?)

Yeah, not to mention Charles Muntz being alive to begin with. For as much depth as there is to some of the film’s elements, there are others you can’t think very hard about without them falling apart.

Still, I love Carl and Russell's relationship. That's cute. (Speaking of, is Pixar psychic to have predicted Disney's eventual buy-out of Lucasfilm in 2009? There's an overt Star Wars reference in the credits.)

Yeah, I really liked Russell as well. He’s a great foil to Carl and really helps give this movie some of its great, wholesome energy. I don’t actually think this movie is all that sad. I think it’s real. I have a much easier time watching this movie for fun than say the second or third Toy Storys. Carl’s feeling listless is kind of endemic to the human experience. Seeing him work through it is very relatable.

I guess.

My #2 is one you put much lower, but it's actually grown on me with each subsequent viewing.

Inside Out is the kind of movie I wish existed when I was younger. It not only tackles emotions in an easy-to-understand way, which is hard to do, but it also tackles the relationship we have with sadness as a concept. Joy's a lot like Woody, in that she's nasty, but not for malicious reasons. She thinks Sadness genuinely harms Riley, so she gaslights her whenever she thinks Sadness is out of line. This also forces Sadness to feel useless, and I'd even argue that it's Joy's fault that everything goes wrong in the movie. She's the one who learns the lesson here.

Outside of that, I love this world. Everything from abstract thoughts being a furnace, to discarded memories being thrown in a literal dump, it all meshes excellently. This was the film that instantly excited me when it was announced in the early-2010's, and I'm happy we got it.

Also, Bing Bong's death is one of the most heartbreaking goodbyes ever. I've had imaginary friends growing up, and him fading away routinely makes me cry.

I don’t know, man. Inside Out was a movie I really enjoyed in my first viewing, and liked progressively less over time. There are a lot of fun visual gags about the world, like, for example, the furnace, but for whatever reason this movie doesn’t really click with me. Maybe it’s because of some of my personal experiences with manipulation that I find what Joy does to be pretty gross and not really forgivable by the end of the film. All the emotions in everyone’s heads are actually really mean. It also reinforces some pretty lame gender stereotypes and relies a lot on leveraging Riley’s stature as a child for emotional weight.

The dialogue between Riley and her parents is about half and half for me. Some of it’s really wonderful and real, and half feels less like how a family would interact and more how adults making a movie think a family would interact. It’s frustrating because I know the folks at Pixar can and have done better.

I find that people are often split on this one, with some loving it and others thinking it manipulative. I know, for a fact, that two reviewers on YouTube were absolutely savage when they reviewed it, even though I don't like either of their reviewing styles. But speaking as someone with Autism who moved when he was 14, I found a lot of this to be quite relatable. I really like Riley as a character, too.

At the very least, the idea alone is interesting. You have to acknowledge that, right?

I mean, definitely, but that doesn’t necessarily affect any of my criticisms.

I suppose. Especially since I'll probably be critical of your next two picks as well.

It’s funny, for a movie about emotions I really feel, grossly indifferent towards this film.

Oh, you’re not going to agree with me at all. There are only two films I haven’t mentioned and you put them much, much lower.

Speaking of...my #2 pick: WALL-E. The first movie to give me genuine anxiety about climate change! 

WALL-E is great. The animation was cutting edge in its day and it still holds up on a technical level as well as an artistic one. This movie can out during a devastating global recession and a heated (if misguided) debate about whether climate change was even real and delivered scathing criticisms of the controlling nature of capitalist society, its disregard for the environment, and the importance of human connection; all while balancing its B and C plots with an adorable robot love story told almost entirely without words for more than half the movie. Films like these from major studios beholden to investors are incredibly rare and really give you a sense of creative passion.

It also strikes a great balance between realism and the surreal, which was no small-feat in and of itself. And then, on top of all that, this movie inadvertently encouraged civil disobedience in the name of environmental action, which was a very spicy take at the time. This movie is leagues beyond its contemporaries (cough, Avatar) in pretty much every way and I don’t see that changing any time soon.

Geez, what is it with people dunking on Avatar? It's been 11 years almost, and the movie wasn't even that bad.

I guess I also wouldn't be so hard on WALL-E if the individual story threads weaved together better. That, and Princess Mononoke is the better environmental story on film. But that's for another time...

Oh, I’ll dunk on Avatar like I’m playing NBA Jam. Never liked that one.

#NotAnOriginalSentiment

#NotAnIncorrectSentiment

ANYWAY, WALL-E is also a pretty damn funny movie. For as much as you’ve harped on slapstick, it really, really works here.

I should clarify that I do still like the movie, I just think it's not as great as everyone's said.

Which is fair. I just happen to love this movie.

Now here’s one I knew we’d disagree on from the moment you dropped me a line. My favorite Pixar movie and #1 pick is: Ratatouille.

My morbid curiosity has kicked in.

“My curiosity has kicked in,” fixed that for you, and good!

I have never not loved Ratatouille, it’s very difficult to put my finger on, but ever since I saw it in theaters I’ve thought “wow, that movie was really fun.” It’s also probably my favorite Brad Bird movie. This film is absolutely not as complex or as poignant as other Pixar offerings, but it definitely has its moments. (The trap store scene comes to mind.) This movie is a movie that lives and dies by its characters, it’s wonderful, wonderful characters. Linguini is great, Colette is great, Remy is great, his colony, also great, the entire kitchen staff? Also great; and then we have the man, the myth, the legend: Skinner.

Skinner is, as we’ve established, a rarity as one of Pixar’s only non-twist antagonists. He’s hostile from the get go, and every time he’s on screen he shows his penchant for chewing scenery like it’s some of the deliciously animated food. Skinner grounds the absurd premise of the film by being driven mad by how unbelievable him telling the truth sounds. This is a movie with, not a car chase, not a motorcycle chase, but a moped/bike chase after a rat who’s carrying the legal documents to a disgraced French restaurant. I hadn’t seen anything like this film before I saw it and haven’t since. The animation and art is also glorious and this film never fails to make me hungry. This is all, of course, before we even get to discussing Ego, who is an absolutely horrifying force of nature for our scrappy protagonists to overcome.

Is this movie perfect? Absolutely not. You’re right about the kiss scene, it does have some icky implications, Gusteau’s death is poorly justified, and French culture has surprisingly little to do with the film set in France, but I think all of that is overshadowed by this film’s larger message.

This movie is a movie that uses the food industry to dismantle the art establishment. The saying “anyone can cook,” as well as Ego’s arc later in the movie, absolutely demolish the classist distinction of what is and is not “high art” based upon how something was made or where it came from, which is something you don’t ever really see coming from mainstream media, like ever.

I know a few people who don't like Ratatouille who've admitted to me that Ego's speech is its saving grace. That's powerful.

It really is, simply, my favorite Pixar film. As this movie fights to establish, objectivity doesn’t really exist in art and emotionally important experiences can come from anywhere, and this one is a source of mine. And as such, it gets my number one spot.

I guess I'd also be more-partial to the film if Linguini weren't such a "seen it before" character. But I guess the focus is more on Remy, who doesn't even have a French accent.

Yes, but Remy is a literal rat. He is also Patton Oswalt. Do you not like Patton Oswalt?

He had to grow on me, honestly. I didn't like him for the longest time, back when I was a conservative. But I still think that everyone in that movie should've been consistent and had a French accent.

I also remember hearing that Ratatouille had a last-minute director change because it wasn't going well. It's the only one that still works, but smells of rewrites.

But then we wouldn’t have Lou Romano’s dorky performance as Linguini or Peter O’Toole’s dulcet baritones.

If Ian Holm can pull off a French accent, then the late-Peter O'Toole could've as well. Especially since British people are better at that than we are.

Anyway, we've drawn this out long enough. Time to take it home with my #1 pick.

Take it away.

Certainly.

My #1 pick comes from a far-off land, one where the caravans roam and-I'm kidding, it's Toy Story 3.

I had an inkling.

I was skeptical of this movie in the years leading up to its release. I knew it'd happen eventually, but would it be good? So many trilogies live or die by their final entries, so I was legitimately afraid that this'd fall flat. I guess its multiple Oscar nominations, including Best Picture, were proof enough that my doubts were misplaced.

What a ride this is! Right from its fake-out opening, which could've been a movie on its own, there's a non-stop assault on my emotions here. The garbage fake-out in the first-act alone almost made my heart stop, and it only gets more intense. Screw a Pixar movie, this is a prison break-out movie, and the iconography is present everywhere. Oh, and if that wasn't bad enough, there was also that furnace scene. My God, that furnace scene! 10 years later, I still get chills when I see it!

And then there's that controversial passing of the torch moment with Andy Davis and Bonnie. I know some fans have been turned off by how Andy feels like an old man here, but I think semantics like that miss the point: Andy's not only given a full character-arc here, but he's the sentimental type. And even as someone who was in university at the time, the "leaving the home" aspect really got to me (speaking of which, the moment where Andy's mom looks at his empty room and breaks down has been noted to make parents cry.) So I don't think that scene is cheap and forced at all.

If I have one complaint, it's Lotso. He's a good villain, complete with a compellingly tragic backstory, but his comeuppance feels cheap. It's like the writers just gave up when they decided to have him be strapped to a garbage truck. Seriously, you couldn't have been more creative?!

Whatever, it's a great movie. Easily my favourite of the franchise, and of Pixar's resume.

I could definitely see a case being made for Toy Story 3 being better than Toy Story 4, even for it being Pixar’s best movie. I guess you could compare my feelings for putting Toy Story 4 so high on my list to the reasoning behind giving Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King Best Picture. It has less to do with that specific film, and more for the outstanding achievement in serialized storytelling.

We spoke at length about Toy Story 3 earlier, so I’m not sure I have much more to add I haven’t already said.

I know it's not fair to pick on a dead man here, but I'm still bitter over Roger Ebert's 3-star review of this movie. Not because he's "wrong", but because I think that he misread the movie because he never had children himself.

Roger Ebert misread a lot of things, but I won’t open up that can of worms here.

To be fair, he's never written a review I can't at least understand.

Anyway, thanks to JHawk99 once more for sticking it out over this massive collaboration piece. And thanks to all of you for sticking by and reading it. Any last words before we go?

Yeah! Follow me on twitter @g1_JHawk99 for art, poetry, and my insufferable personality. Wear a mask, wash your hands, and don’t be a selfish prick. Stay home!

Wait, you write poetry?

I do! I’m a spoken word poet. I’m currently working on my writing socials, more information to come on my Twitter. I was actually working on writing an album before COVID separated me from my producer and stalled my progress.

To be fair, that virus has caused a lot of people misery...

Yes. Please, dear viewers, see the above statement. Assuming you’re in The U.S., like me, our country is botching its response. We are not ready to reopen. If you have the option to stay home, check out some of the 22 movies we talked about instead of going out! I thank you on behalf of your communities in advance.

Apologies, and thanks to my gracious host, Whitly. I’ll put my soapbox away now.

It's okay, I don't think many people would dispute that.

Anyway, you all know where to find me. Hopefully this won't take too long to edit, even if it was fun. But until then, stay safe, and I'll see you next time!

See you in another four years!

Hopefully sooner!

(Fin.)

Ranking Pixar: 15-8

(Editor’s note: Save for some slight editing, rephrasing and spelling/grammar, the following conversation remains largely unedited. It also contains spoilers, and-for the sake of length-has been chopped up into 3 parts.)

(Part 1 can be found here.)

Onto #15!

Indeed. My pick for #15 is: A Bug’s Life!

I actually really like this one, but I have no earthly clue how to feel about it post #MeToo. Taken on its own merits, it's a light, fun retelling of Seven Samurai that I think takes full advantage of its setting to deliver some inventive imagery. It also managed to make grasshoppers terrifying, and I respect any movie that can do that.

Dot is easily my favourite character in the entire movie, just FYI. I'll also give the movie's sense of urgency, but I just think Pixar's made better since.

This movie is full of great characters. I've seen a lot of Seven Samurai retellings and the circus bugs have more personality than many of their contemporaries. Also, it has a character named P.T. Flea and I just think that's great.

Next to The Underminer, I think that's my favourite Ratzenberger role.

Gonna have to tell me more about The Underminer later. So, what's this mysterious #15 pick of yours? I'm dying to know.

Simple: it's Onward.

Remember how I mentioned my dad's heart attack? Well, I also lost both of my grandparents on his side at a young age. My Zaidy in particular died in a car accident before my second birthday, so I never really got to know him outside of one, really faint memory. This movie felt extremely personal for that reason.

It's not quite top-tier Pixar, but Dan Scanlon really cared about this one. The D&D stuff also hit home since my last job was at a D&D-themed pub, and I loved its semi-predictable resolution. That was kinda bold considering that Ian had never met his dad, and him letting Barley say goodbye one last time made me cry again. (I'm a softie, I'm sorry.) This is the kinda movie that, like Dreamworks's Abominable, is much better than its formulaic concept should allow it to be. And it'd be nothing short of a masterpiece had it not been for Pixar's incredibly high-standards.

Oh wow, I am genuinely surprised by how low Onward is on your list.

That should tell you something right there, shouldn't it? Keep in mind that that we're now in "good" territory, too.

Yes, we've almost run out of mediocre Pixar movies...almost, but not quite.

I think Onward's proof that Scanlon's got a great movie in him, but needs a better script.

I'm very torn on this one, so I'll get into it shortly.

Fair enough.

#14 is Incredibles 2, which has dropped a bit since I first saw it.

I still really love this movie, but ignoring the strobing (which was also an issue in Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse), it feels like a lower-stakes sequel to a masterpiece. I also think that while it builds on its world quite nicely, and that the twist villain makes more sense than people care to admit, it retreads quite a bit.

Still, that light rail chase is amazing. And I love everything involving Jack-Jack in this movie. I also really like The Underminer, even if he gets away, and the movie's closing shot is a great rhyme with that of the first one.

I don't know, man. Brad Bird has always been phenomenal at action set-pieces, even in stuff like Tomorrowland, but when the novelty's worn off and you know all the twists, Incredibles 2 just feels kind of...boring. That said, The Crusher has the best line in the movie.

I guess I just was happy to see more of the family dynamic this time around. But yeah, it's not as fresh on re-watch.

Speaking of things that aren't as fresh on re-watch, my #14 pick: Inside Out. 

This movie's biggest issue, was, for me, its leading duo. The setting is very inventive, there's a lot of fantastic visual comedy, some genuinely emotional (pun intended) beats, and a poignant message...

But good Lord, I never knew happiness could be so mean. I think the idea of Joy being selfish was actually an intentional commentary on our desire to always be happy, but it was frustrating to see the conflict be driven almost entirely by her entitlement to control Riley's life.

Believe it or not, the original draft made Joy a lot nastier.

I mean, given Woody's track record, I absolutely believe it. Sadness, for her part, was incredibly frustrating to watch as well. Which works thematically, but doesn't make for a very pleasant viewing experience.

I think it is very important to qualify that we are in "good" territory.

Yeah. I'm that weirdo that loves Inside Out, but I'll save why for when I discuss it.

Looking forward to it.

My #13 pick is: Finding Dory. 

It was kind of a tossup between this one and Inside Out, this one would have placed lower if Hank wasn't such an achievement in character design. It tread a lot of the same ground as Finding Nemo and it felt like it had a lot less heart than its predecessor.

I also don't really understand why there was a demand for this movie. Finding Nemo ended on a very conclusive note, and I don't feel like Finding Dory really benefitted from the context of, or in turn benefitted, the legacy of the original.

I disagree for one, very major reason, but you'll understand soon enough what it is. But yeah, Hank the septopus was easily the best-animated character in the film. I have to wonder how much time went into making him alone.

Every sequence with him was an absolute joy, and I have a real thing for cephalopods too.

I wouldn't be surprised if Pixar studied tarantulas for him, to be honest. They're good at cross-researching.

My #13 is a controversial one, but I can't help it: I think Toy Story hasn't aged all that well.

It's still a good story, but aside from the wonky animation, the character models also creep me out now and the film is way too short and rushed.

I remember really loving this one as a kid, and I still enjoy it a lot now. Its scary moments are still effective, albeit more Sam Raimi scary than actually scary, and the lesson that Woody learns is nice and effective, but considering that, like I said, the film feels too short and rushed, it can't quite level up to what it used to be. Also, Bo Peep is barely even a character in this one.

I still respect the fact that it changed the landscape of animation overnight, but yeah...

Heresy.

Also, fun fact: Joss Whedon penned this movie. It was taking forever and going nowhere before he contributed to it.

Anyway, you may now pelt me with stones.

I've given a lot of consideration to where Toy Story goes on my list, and I think that regardless of its aged animation, the script and direction very much hold up today. It may be a relic in some ways, but we wouldn't still talk about it if it wasn't timeless.

Scud doesn't freak you out now?

Oh, Scud freaked me out as a kid! But that never detracted from the movie's charm.

I was talking about his design aging poorly. Also, Sid's one menacing asshole!

#12 goes to Finding Dory.

I know you think it didn't need to be made, but I think it justifies its existence retroactively with that throwaway line about Dory's parents in the first movie.

Whenever people claim that every non-Toy Story sequel sucks, I feel like Violet whipping her super-suit at the wall in Incredibles 2 and storming to her room. What are y'all talking about? Finding Dory's great! It's funny, occasionally tear-inducing and even touches on adversity through disability. I already touched on this a few years ago, but as someone with an LD profile myself, Dory's struggles have always spoken to me. And this movie builds on that by having Marlin, the only non-disabled character, actually feeling out of place this time. Fancy that, huh?

I guess it's just nice to have a family film treat disabilities with respect and sincerity for a change, so I guess that's why it stands out so much in my mind. And yes, telling the story from Dory's perspective this time actually helps to subvert the "out-of-order narrative" trope that so many pretentious movies get wrong.

I actually really appreciated the disability-sensitive narrative as well. It was handled with a lot of care, and I appreciated that Marlin's arc was coming to terms with how insensitive he'd been. Other than that, the movie didn't click with me.

I guess it's very much the right mindset mentality. I might be biased because of my LD profile, but I've always been weirded out by the unrelenting hate this movie receives. Still, fair enough!

Also, "Unforgettable" is a fittingly-on-the-nose song to include at the end.

Yeah, I don’t think the unrelenting hate is necessary. I personally just don’t particularly care for it.

Moving on to my #12 pick: Onward. 

I knew this movie was going to be exactly in the middle of my list as I watched it. It’s perfectly middle of the pack Pixar. I didn’t particularly love it, but it was very competently made and I didn’t really dislike it either. It’s a very slick story. Everything mentioned in the script gets used at some point or another, and the ending was very sweet. As somebody who lost their grandfather right before Christmas, this movie would have destroyed me if I saw it in theaters at the time. But I don’t necessarily credit the movie with that.

I'm sorry to hear that. I know a lot of people who were moved by Onward because they lost relatives. But I guess that was kinda the point.

Yeah, I had the benefit of a little space to see that, emotionally, that’s all Onward really has going for it. I was pretty ambivalent on the D&D stuff, it seemed like how somebody who doesn’t play D&D thinks people who play it act. Very outdated stereotype. This movie also doesn’t do a very good job of raising its stakes or creating tension. For a film about racing to spend time with a lost loved one, it has very little sense of urgency.

But, as I said, it was technically very well made.

I found that that part of the movie was more of a catalyst for Ian and Barley's splintered relationship. Especially in the final moments, where Ian sacrifices his chance to see his dad so that Barley can say goodbye properly. It reminded me of when my grandmother was on her deathbed.

Yeah, I thought that was a really neat and nuanced take on this kind of story.

I'm glad we're in agreement over that. Anyway, time for your #11 pick.

Yes, my #11 pick! This is where things start to get really difficult. My #11 pick is: Toy Story. 

It definitely says something that the next eleven films on my list are all complete knock-out hits. I still adore Toy Story, I think it’s aged remarkably well, all things considered. (Watch Pixar’s first shorts if you want to see truly horrifying, outdated animation.) Toy Story owes a lot of its enduring appeal to its original premise and its cast of well-rounded characters. This story may not be entirely timeless, but it’s pretty darn close, and I don’t see this one falling out of my good graces any time soon.

However, the next ten films following Toy Story all have the benefit of newer technology and more experience from Pixar’s staff. I can’t really justify putting this one above some of the films which would succeed it.

I find that Toy Story fans generally tend to fall into two camps: people who consider it to be Pixar's best movie, or people who consider its sequel to be Pixar's best movie. I'm neither camp, but I still appreciate the impact this film made on my 5 year-old mind.

...Depends on which sequel.

Generally speaking, people consider its immediate sequel to be the best.

I decline to comment at this moment in time.

I'll take that as you hiding something, but okay!

You know me, ever deceitful.

I sure do! My #11 goes to Ratatouille.

I know this one is a fan-favourite of foodies, but speaking as one myself, I find parts of it to be a little off-putting. I mean, a rat cooking? And controlling a schlub by his hair? They do a decent enough job selling you on that, but it's kinda gross. And let's not forget that not every character in the movie has a French accent, or that really uncomfortable kissing scene that borders on rape by today's standards...

The speech that Ego gives at the end, though? Chef's kiss. I mean that both pun intended and not intended, too.

Okay, look. The rat washes his hands, so it’s okay.

Maybe, but The Hantavirus is still a thing that exists...

I actually wrote a whole piece on that speech, though. As an artist myself, that's quite the humbling dissertation by the late-Peter O'Toole.

...I think this a good time for you to move on to your next pick.

Fair enough.

#10 is gonna make some people really angry, even though I've said why in a previous blog: WALL-E.

To be fair, it looks and sounds beautiful. And it's quite clever. My issue is that WALL-E's three movies in one: a love story, a dystopian sci-fi movie, and an ecological message movie. I don't mind all of those on their own, I loved Avatar, but together they clash constantly. It's like Andrew Stanton couldn't decide which story to focus on, so he meshed all of them and we got a confused movie as a result.

To its credit, the characters, particularly the robots, are all great. I especially like how WALL-E and EVE subvert traditional gender roles, yet still end up not totally bucking them at the end of the day. I actually wrote about that very thing for a university course in 2011.

Wow, you’re right. That did make me angry!

I'm sorry, but you placing Inside Out as low as you did made me angry. So I guess we're even?

Suppose so. I personally really like WALL-E. It feels very experimental, and we haven’t seen that from Pixar...pretty much since WALL-E, despite the film’s massive success. It’s a triumph of silent story telling for most of the film, the robots are adorable and it’s a scathing (if heavy handed) criticism of capitalism. What’s not to love?

I guess my frustration stems from, like I said, its tone. It's weird to have two robots dancing in space, only to then have AUTO turn on The Captain a short while later. Like I said, it feels like three movies vying for attention.

Fair enough, but I think the dystopian/environmental subplot went pretty well with WALL-E’s job being, you know, stacking ridiculous amounts of garbage.

I guess so. Anyway, your #10 pick?

Ah, alright, I’m taking the plunge. #10: Monsters, Inc. 

What a screwball movie. The setting is incredibly original, the art style keeps its animation from going out of date, it has Billy Crystal in it, and it very elegantly handles themes of prejudice. This movie is phenomenal. And it is my number ten pick. God help me.

"Put that thing right back where it came from, or so help me..."

“OR SO HELP ME!”

Also, don't feel bad about ranking it so low. Pixar's made many great movies over the years.

Does that mean I’m off the hook for the next nine movies because there are no wrong answers?

I guess so.

Good, we’ll see how long that lasts.

By the way, fun fact: the scene where Sully thinks Boo's being impounded? Taken straight from a Warner Bros. cartoon.

You mean when she was being “cubed?”

Yeah.

Oh yeah, I think I know the cartoon. Works just as well here as it did there!

I also remember the scene traumatizing me as an 11 year-old.

Oh, when I was a little, little kid Randall terrified me.

Right next to Sully's scream. Speaking of which, how come this movie got a lame prequel instead of a sequel? The world opens itself up to one quite nicely, especially with that closing shot.

I could not tell you, but I’m a real sucker for open endings.

This next one’s gonna rattle some cages. Coming in at #9: Toy Story 2. 

Toy Story 2, in my opinion, is where Pixar found their voice as the studio that makes really sad movies. It did what all good sequels do, taking the implied themes of parenthood and mortality inherent to the premise of the first film and exploring them in excruciating detail. What is a toy without their child? What happens to toys that get broken? Is it even worth belonging to a child if they won’t be around forever? These questions are incredibly resonant and human. I commend Toy Story 2 for essentially asking “is life worth living?”

But it also had the beginnings of some of Pixar’s worst habits. I’m not a fan of Stinky Pete as a twist-villain, there’s some major tonal whiplash, and lots of references that were, even at the time, pretty dated.

Come now, that Star Wars reference was hysterical!

Look, I love me a good Star Wars reference, but I could never really get behind the Zurg sequence.

I do love the opening though. I can’t explain why, but a lot of the textures and particle effects in this movie are just...satisfying.

Indeed. For those who don't know, Toy Story 2 was rushed and laden with production issues, hence why the opening still has some traces of the original opening for the movie. Between fighting to not make this a direct-to-video sequel, the 9 months of reworking and almost permanently deleting the file on Pixar's mainframe computer, it's amazing that they were able to pull this off.

And to pull it off so well.

Indeed.

Speaking of, my #9 entry is also Toy Story 2.

It seemed like this shouldn't have worked, but it did. Between Woody's existential crisis, Jesse's tragic backstory, and the ethical dilemma it raises about self-worth, it seems like Pixar was truly on the road to greatness with this one. I also, unlike you, love the references to Jurassic Park and Star Wars, to name a few.

This movie also happens to have the company's best end-credit bloopers, as well as one of the best closing jokes. I think my only issues are that the animation is still a bit dated and that Woody shifts gears in his character arc way too quickly. Then again, the movie's only about 90-something minutes long, so...

Yeah, its short runtime definitely necessitates its breakneck pace.

Yeah, that can sometimes be a problem for Pixar movies.

Though Toy Story 2 succeeds in spite of that.

Indeed it does. I'm still surprised you weren't a fan of the Star Wars parody.

What can I say? I guess Chicken Little put me off Darth Vader jokes.

Chicken Little? You actually watched that?

Yes. Yes I did. NEXT!

You poor soul...

I SAID NEXT.

Anyway, #8 is Monsters, Inc.

I'll admit that this is my least-favourite of Pete Docter's Pixar offerings so far, but I still really enjoy it. It's not only one of Pixar's most-quotable movies, it's also one of their funniest. It's true that a lot of its humour is cheap slapstick, which is my least-favourite kind of humour, but it's really well-placed slapstick at that. I also like that Mike and Sully have to get over their fear of children, which is funny on its own, through Boo, who's unbelievably cute.

I do think that some of the over-reliance on slapstick has worn it out over time, and it lacks a truly sad moment as an adult, but I'll be damned if I don't still love it. To quote a family friend, "It's a classic!"

I don’t think a movie necessarily has to have a “truly sad moment” to be great. Monsters, Inc. knew exactly what it was meant to do, and it did it very well.

Considering it sets itself up for one, I beg to differ. I don't recall actually crying when Mike and Sully said goodbye to Boo, and I cry very easily.

Hmmm, I see your point. I think it’s because it lacks finality. They rebuild Boo’s door at the end, they can always go visit.

I think it's more like how it wasn't given enough time to really marinate as a moment. In a weird way, that's aged the worst of the entire movie.

What's your #8?

My #8 is: The Incredibles. 

Holy hell, do I love Brad Bird’s first contribution to the Pixar canon. This movie, unlike its successor, has a phenomenal sense of scale and adventure. It really throws you into its world. It also has some very, very heady subtext, like violent crime and infidelity that went right over my head as a kid. It was also very, very far ahead of its time with Syndrome, who is, essentially, just an entitled, toxic-ly masculine fanboy who turns his hatred for the person who rejected him back on society. This film has only gotten more relevant and I love it.

2004, the year that gave us Spider-Man 2 and The Incredibles. Aka, two of the best superhero movies ever made.

Pizza Time intensifies.

You just reminded me: The Parrs have never done a Pizza Hut commercial.

I actually very distinctly remember desperately wanting to see this movie, but not being allowed to go with my brother and his friends to a late showing. I was right to be mad.

Also, what?

Never mind. And don't worry, I didn't see the movie in theatres either because it was an awkward time in my life. I actually had to wait until my brothers rented it on DVD the following Winter.

I'll save my full thoughts for later, but this is a brilliant movie regardless of how you look at it. I even know non-superhero fans who love it.

It’s funny how The Incredibles has never really been considered a superhero movie in the sense we know it today. I think it falls much more firmly into the mystery genre, what with all the thrilling twists and clues.

Brad Bird was a fan of James Bond and Mission: Impossible as a kid, so that doesn't surprise me.

“KRONOS.”

I up the ante with Mirage.

Touché!

Also, fun fact: Nomanisan Island is really an anagram for "no man is an island".

This movie just keeps on giving.

Indeed.

(To be continued in Part 3...)

Ranking Pixar: 22-16

(Editor’s note: Save for some slight editing, rephrasing and spelling/grammar, the following conversation remains largely unedited. It also contains spoilers, and-for the sake of length-has been chopped up into 3 parts.)

(Our chat begins now.)

How's COVIDtine treating you all? I know I've probably asked that question verbatim at this point, but since we're still technically in quarantine I feel it pertinent to ask.

Anyway, with all of the stress of reality kicking in slowly and surely, I figured I'd take this time to tackle another entry on my bucket list for this time period. Everyone's been doing it, and with the fate of Soul currently up in the air, I guess now's a good time to rank Pixar's 22 films so far for you all. But not alone, though. Say hello to an old friend of mine who I haven't actually collaborated with since early 2016. Welcome JHawk99!

Hi Whitly, thanks for having me! Was it really all the way back in 2016 when we went over Star Wars: The Clone Wars together? Man, time really flies. I've gotten a lot better at writing since then, glad to collaborate with you on another project.

Yeah, January 21st, 2016 is when it went live on my blog. Good times...

To clarify, we're ranking our picks from worst to best here. I don't know any of his, he doesn't know any of mine, which should make this fun and interesting. You ready?

Absolutely!

Alrighty then! Let's kick this off with our #22 entry:

Cars 2 feels simultaneously like a no-brainer and an unfair swipe at Pixar. It's Cars 2! I honestly have a bit of guilt ranking this so low because while it's technically not "good", it's also not the worst thing ever. I think that if it were any other studio than Pixar, it'd probably just be meh.

I mean, I like the premise in theory, and I think the Cars franchise is a good one to choose for a spy thriller premise (the opening chase scene alone is proof of that). I also think using Mater as a vehicle (no pun intended) for not underestimating people is smart, even if Mater himself can be annoying to listen to for prolonged periods of time. But the movie itself meanders, the plot is thin and forced, the message is really preachy and the denouement leaves me scratching my head from all the questions it raises. So while I don't think it's unbearably awful, I completely agree with it being Pixar's worst movie to-date.

It really does feel unfair to start with Cars 2, but it'd be grasping at straws to try and place anything else from Pixar's catalogue in the #22 spot.

Yeah, especially since it's not a boring movie by any stretch of the imagination. But I'm also a sucker for good animation, and this definitely has it.

My thoughts exactly, Cars 2 has a lot of energy; it just lacks substance and feels significantly more "kiddie" than other Pixar films. It's the only time I ever sat in a theater to watch a Pixar movie as a teenager and thought "I don't belong here."

I'm guessing your #22 pick is the same, then?

It is, though I made a valiant effort to find another pick.

Might as well explain why then, even if it's kinda redundant.

Well, Cars 2, as a film, really isn't that bad. I actually enjoyed a lot of the narrative beats, the spy movie premise worked better than it had any right to, and there are some pretty disturbing implications for the Cars universe.

We deal with some pretty heady themes such as: car ableism, car murder, and car...veganism? That are genuinely interesting ideas. My biggest gripe with the movie is how little trust Lightning has in Mater, despite the entire moral of the first Cars movie also being not to judge a book by its cover. For all of its shiny new gadgets and Japanese toilet jokes, Cars 2 treads the same thematic ground as its predecessor. Unfortunately, Pixar is prone to this shortcoming in their sequels...

I remember one of the cars from the first movie being a hippie, so it's not exactly "new" to discuss that here. I also think that while Pixar sequels often do retread in places, this one does so while also not being terribly inspired about it.

I actually remember there being behind-the-scenes complications that led to a director change as well.

Alright, I suppose it's my go for #21 then?

Yep.

Coolio.

My pick for #21 on our list is: The Good Dinosaur, the only Pixar movie so boring I stopped watching it the first time I saw it.

This one would easily be below Cars 2 if it wasn't so gosh darn pretty to look at. There are good ideas in here, but the execution is...let’s just say it's muddled? I was actually really excited for this one when it was announced, it looked like it was going to be a very unique journey of self-discovery and visual story telling. Ultimately, I just couldn't connect with Arlo and that's what really did it in for me.

Wow, didn't expect that! I have a bit of a soft spot for The Good Dinosaur in spite of its flaws, but we'll cover that later.

I'm curious what exactly did it in about Arlo, though. Care to elaborate?

I have a bit of a thing against emotionally manipulative story-telling. A large marketing point of The Good Dinosaur was how real every scrape and bruise on Arlo and Spot looked as they went on their journey together. The Good Dinosaur is a movie in which two children bond over communal suffering. I would have liked to see Arlo be likeable because of the depth of his character and his personality, and not because he's cute and he gets hurt...a lot. Which is emphasized by how good the sound design for this movie is. Every impact, slip, or scrabble feels real. Real painful, too.

Fair enough. I guess I'm also a sucker for certain things that the movie did well.

In keeping with the theme for my bottom entry, #21 for me is Cars 3.

Despite being a massive improvement over its predecessor, Cars 3 also feels like a darker, retreaded book-end of Cars. It's grittier and sadder, probably the saddest entry in the franchise, and I like how it ties into Doc's accident with Lightning's accident at the beginning and how that makes him feel obsolete, but that's only the beginning of it.

I kinda find it annoying how every Cars movie save the second is ridiculously slow and draggy. I also don't like how the ageist jokes keep getting rammed in our faces (get it, Lightning is past his prime?) and the relationship with his trainer, though nice, kinda comes off as embarrassing as someone who did work with a PTA weekly until COVID hit. Like seriously, shouldn't one of the requirements of being a car trainer be that you can race yourself? It seems like a no-brainer.

I do like the final race, though. That was great.

Cars definitely hamstrung itself on its premise. Having a movie where every character is, well, a car, really constricts the kind of story telling you can do to genre films that involve...well, cars!

That said, I think that making a movie about an old athlete is the logical conclusion to the Cars trilogy, and I respect the attempt to make a serious Cars movie.

Yeah. It's tried and true, and arguably overdone, but I guess it makes sense.

#20 is the only place left for me to go: Cars.

It's the most thematically boring of the trilogy, but it definitely has the best story of them all. And while I know that it's "a rip-off of Doc Hollywood" with cars instead of people, it's still very well-executed. I especially like the final race in the movie, and how its lesson about selflessness is one that I can buy into even if it's predictable and tired.

Still, its premise is really simple and the middle feels like filler. I remember not getting the hate the first time I saw it, but reflection has shown the cracks in the foundation. And it has lots of them! But I guess there wasn't much you could've done with a movie about talking cars, even if its original song at the end is absolutely phenomenal (seriously!)

Man, how soft a spot do you have for The Good Dinosaur?

You'll see.

Anyway, what's your #20 pick?

Something controversial.

I'm all ears.

My #20 pick is actually Brave.

We've talked a lot about the shortcoming of Cars, but like you just said for Cars and Cars 3, while their concepts are hackneyed and tired, they are well executed and cohesive. The same cannot be said of Brave. Brave is a movie where the whole is less than the sum of its parts. I loved the setting, I loved some of the characters, I loved the animation, I loved the art direction. Brave had massive potential to be a great adventure movie...and then we got Mother Bear.

I fail to see the controversy here, since a lot of people don't like it.

But the people who do like this movie absolutely adore it.

I'm actually conflicted on Brave, but we'll get to that eventually. It's just interesting hearing how people keep thinking they're dropping a grenade by putting it so low, only for it to be a dud because so many people agree.

Then again, I remember once getting shit from someone on Twitter for saying it wasn't so great, so...maybe.

Leave flowers at my grave after the mob burns me at the stake.

I'll keep that in mind!

Anyway, your turn.

Right-O!

My #19 actually is going to be Cars 3. 

It's an improvement over Cars 2, but it doesn't have the novelty that Cars had, and I really can't justify it going any higher. It's a movie we've all seen before, many times, about the old dog getting back in the game "one last time." It's good, not great, not much more to it than that.

Basically, although I'm surprised you like it more than I do. I should also note that Lightning McQueen's paint-job actually creeps me out in that movie, and I'm glad he sheds it before the finale.

Oh? Why's that?

I can't quite articulate it, but it doesn't feel like him. It'd be like an actor wearing the skin colour of another race in my mind, it feels dirty.

Yet another thing Cars 3 never elaborates on. Whether or not paint is analogous to clothing...or skin?

Yeah...

My #19 is probably gonna insult a few people, but I won't lie: it's Monsters, U.

I get that this is the "college frat boy" movie from Pixar, but it's probably the first Pixar movie to actively bore me for most of its runtime. The ending scene is great, and the message is (while dubious in this economy) nice for those who feel like school isn't for them, but everything else feels like a lame prequel to a great movie. Plus, it retcons Mike and Sully's relationship, and Randall's sudden turn from good to evil feels cheap and stupid.

Gotta give it up to that end scene again, though. If any effort went into this movie, it was definitely in Sully scaring the adult humans.

I knew Monsters, U was going to be on the bottom half of this list, but I'm surprised to see it so low on yours. I thought some of the action set-pieces were inventive, and I enjoyed the idea of Monster College way more than I ever expected. This was one of those movies I thought I'd totally pass over that I have a soft spot for.

And now you know my stance on The Good Dinosaur. Though, to be honest, part of my disdain for this one could also be that the theatre was mostly empty by the time I got to it (I saw it at a matinee showing a month and a half late.)

I saw it in full for the first time on syndication.

I was also 23 when it came out, and still in university at the time. So if any Pixar movie should've spoken to me, it was that one. But it felt more like an 80's college movie than a contemporary one.

Now that, that is a legitimate criticism. Monsters, U is not grounded in the modern day college experience at all. I think I would have been much harsher on it had it not taken place in a universe so far removed from our own.

Kinda makes me want a Monsters, Community College movie, now that you mention it.

Hah!

#18 will probably shock a few people with how high it is, but I'm going with Brave here.

Why? Because despite how misleading it was, or even how much trouble went on behind-the-scenes (seriously, what happened to Brenda Chapman's vision?), the movie's theme of parental-child disenfranchisement is one that anyone with a rocky relationship with their parents (like I did at the time) can relate to. If anything, Merida's rekindling with her mother is what makes this movie not fall into further mediocrity.

Still, I don't think it's great. It may look and sound amazing, and I like how it touches on Scottish history, but a lot of the side characters are annoying and shallow, and the whole thread with the Queen becoming a bear is basically Brother Bear 2.0. I seriously think that having too many writers and directors actually hurt this, as it's a real mess!

I was wondering how much higher you were going to let Brave go. I definitely agree about the relationship between Merida and her mother being compelling, but it was bogged down by The Queen's inability to speak for the majority of the film. The message reads less as "seek inter-generational compromise," and more "put the opposing party in a position where they literally can't communicate with you so they have to acquiesce," and that doesn't really sit right with me.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: if you're going to make a movie about talking to your parents, the parental characters should probably be capable of human speech.

I guess I'm also a little biased because: a. One of my cousin's friends looked just like Merida at the time. b. I was late in asserting my independence. and c. The ending made me cry.

Oh, I absolutely have some biased picks on this list.

I'm sure you do. What's your #18 pick?

A biased pick. Coming in at #18 on my list: Incredibles 2.

Go on...

This one really soured over time for me. I loved it the first time I saw it, and it got progressively less fun with each repeated viewing. A lot of the action is very well directed, but it doesn't have the same feeling of scale as its predecessor. I didn't like the twist villain, I thought a lot of the thematic elements, (like Bob learning to appreciate his wife) weren't explored with the same level of nuance or creativity as we had seen in The Incredibles, and it has a blatant disregard for people with epilepsy. (Editor's note: click with caution.)

I was also going through a rough breakup at the time, so it’s not a film I like to revisit given the chance; though that doesn't necessarily have any impact on what I think of the film.

It seems like the Pixar film that prompted a trigger warning also happens to be really divisive. (Though I personally think that it's better than many people give it credit.) Sorry about the breakup, though.

Bah, water under the bridge! I think this movie really struggled with expectation. The Incredibles was a very tough act to follow, and waiting fourteen years to do it doesn't help the sequel's case. As you'll see later on this list, Brad Bird has directed some of my favorite Pixar films, so I was a little disappointed to see him make something so...milquetoast.

I could also be partial because I hated Tomorrowland so much, and this was an improvement on many fronts...

Tomorrowland. There's a discussion for another time.

No need, I've already ranted about it.

You and everybody else on the planet. Myself included.

Damon Lindelof isn't a good writer, Hollywood! Sheesh!

Anywho, moving on to my next pick.

Coming in at #17 on my list: Cars. 

Yes, I'm putting the first Cars movie above Incredibles 2. Fight me. This movie's concept has definitely not aged well, but this thing was a merchandising titan back in good old '06.

I have a bit of a nostalgic soft spot for this one, it was a novel concept at the time, and it strikes a tonal balance that its sequels (and spinoffs) failed to capture. It didn't take itself too seriously, but it didn't take itself too lightly, either. It had, in my opinion, an incredibly likeable cast of side characters. Despite some of this movie's uglier flaws (like sexism). I really enjoyed Radiator Springs before it turned into an oversaturated tourist trap with sequels and Mater shorts.

Life is a highway, amirite? Also, if Pixar's gonna make money to fund their other, better ventures, it'd make sense to do it with this one. It's also kinda interesting how all three Cars movies came out before or after big hits.

Hey, say what you will, but that song is a bop. And make money they did! Following Cars, Pixar made some of their most poignant, experimental, and beautiful films to date.

What's even more interesting is that the Cars sequels actually feel more inspired than other non-Toy Story continuations. They may not have been, y'know...good; but somehow the movie designed to sell you cute Hot Wheels had more personality than something like, well, Incredibles 2.

By the way, Cars still has one of John Ratzenberger's best lines in a Pixar movie (it's when he calls out his cameos in the post-credits sequences.)

I'd fight you about that statement, but I'll let my list speak for itself.

I am very interested to see your opinions on some of my spicier takes.

Duly noted.

My #17 pick is The Good Dinosaur.

"What?! That high?!?!" Calm down. I know it's not great. But I have a soft-spot for some of the jokes (including that trippy fruit sequence) and the underlying theme of learning to fend for yourself while still being yourself. The movie has a lot of heart to it, and while it's jarring when you juxtapose the photorealistic backgrounds with the cartoony designs, I think Arlo and Spot are fun characters in their own right.

I think I'm also biased because this is my version of The Land Before Time with the "dead relative" point. Y'see, I'd almost lost my dad the year before to a massive heart attack, so that anxiety was still fresh in my mind. That, and the resolution for Spot was quite touching.

But yeah, it's not great. It's weird how of the two Pixar movies to release in 2015, this is the one that didn't come together. Especially since both movies went through major production Hell.

I mean, you don't agree with me, so obviously you need to be burnt at the stake.

I'll get the marshmallows!

That's very kind of you. We'll be coming back around to a lot of points you just brought up in some of my later entries. Like the other Pixar film from 2015, emotionally manipulative storytelling, and dead relatives! (Oh my!)

The movie definitely does have heart, though, I will absolutely give you that.

I wonder where this is going...

#16 is A Bug’s Life, which frequently gets pitted against Antz in a culture war.

I was debating between this and my #15 pick, but this one lost out slightly because even though it's a cute movie, most of its characters are bland, forgettable, or both. It also borrows way too heavily from Seven Samurai and Aesop's fables, and it shows in its premise. It's also hard to stomach Hopper these days knowing what we know about Kevin Spacey...

I was very curious where A Bug’s Life would place with you because of its complicated history. I personally quite enjoy it, but it's a difficult film to judge fairly with everything we know about its troubled production history and, of course, Kevin Spacey being a garbage person.

I disagree on the inspiration from Seven Samurai as a negative, but we'll come back to that when it shows up on my list.

To be fair, I do still like it. But I just like Antz a tad more, as it takes more risks and better executes its premise despite meandering a lot (and that Woody Allen is also a garbage person.)

Man, what is it with terrible people and being involved with these two movies?

That's nothing! You should see what John Lasseter was like!

I was referring to him as well.

Yeah...

...Yeah.

Anyway, I'm sure your #16 will make me angry, but go ahead anyway.

Oh, it absolutely will. My #16 is Monsters, U, the film nobody asked for and that I somehow wound up kinda liking.

I don't think anybody expected this one to be good, I can't name a single person who was like "gee willikers, am I excited to see Mike and Sully share a bunk bed!" But it actually had a lot of fun with its premise, and I could see why it was worth going back to the Monsters Universe. Sure, there were some minor retcons, but I thought it was interesting to see how monster society affected the classic "college movie" tropes; even if that genre is from an era long gone by Monsters, U's release.

I'm not angry, just disappointed.

See, just like this movie, I'm defying expectations.

I guess I'm the cynic, because, like I said earlier, I didn't connect with it despite it being made for me. It actually kinda annoyed me in places, though, again, that final scene where Sully and Mike scare those adults was brilliant!

I don't really think this movie was made for college kids of the 2010s. I personally took it as being meant for people closer to Mike and Sully's age in the first movie, who grew up with this image of the college experience in their media.

The short made about this movie was much better, but whatever.

(To be continued in Part 2…)

My Star Wars Day Contribution

Holy heckin’ wow!

One of my earliest pieces on The Whitly-Verse was a collaboration with a friend on Star Wars: The Clone Wars, its brilliance and why it deserved to be watched. That was despite missing its conclusion and the events leading up to Star Wars Ep. III: Revenge of the Sith. For the longest time, I thought there’d be no conclusion at all! After all, the franchise had moved on with Star Wars Rebels, so why hold any hope?

Cue this teaser:

Yeah baby! (Courtesy of Rotten Tomatoes TV.)

It’s rare when a cancelled TV series gets rescued and revived, but it looks like we got that! And hey, the aesthetic received an upgrade to coincide with Disney money backing it! The only downside was that we’d have to wait until 2020. That, and it’d be available on Disney+, which kinda sucked. Even with its weekly syndication giving me time to catch up, I was still hesitant to actually get a subscription. But my lack of better judgement finally got a hold of me long enough to cave and watch the show.

And give it credit: it’s still great! I couldn’t have asked for a better finale, even if it takes 2/3 of its runtime to get there. Because even with the first eight episodes being self-contained, and the second-arc going back in time to right after Season 5 ended, it was clear that what made this work was still there. It was still obvious that the show-runners cared. And that’s what matters most.

As for the season itself? Without going into too much detail, the first four episodes adapt an abandoned story from 2013: The Bad Batch. Focusing on a team of controversial clones, this arc has the beating heart that made the show: high stakes, plenty of action, lots of carnage and destruction, the likes. It also ends on a note befitting of the show, which was nice.

The second four episodes, as I said before, go back in time to Season 5’s finale and show what happened after its heartbreaking conclusion. It’s a good arc, containing plenty of stealth and banter, but it feels like filler. My big complaint is how detached it is from the rest of the season, falling into the category of “lesser-quality”. Still, it ends on a tie-in to the season finale, albeit loosely, so I can’t fault it for that. This arc gets a pass.

The final arc, which feels like a movie divided into four episodes, is where everything coalesces. The Mandalore subplot, which the show dove into a few times, finally gets its conclusion, and the fights are some of the best I’ve seen. I also like how it combines details from the last film in The Prequel Trilogy, even going forward with Order 66. It’s tense and intense, helped by a dramatic improvement in the animation’s quality. And it’s emotional. If anything, this is the best arc in the season, and I appreciate the show-runners saving it for last. It makes the journey more worth it.

But that’s the show for you: a rollercoaster of highs and lows, and never simultaneously. But there also isn’t a Rush Clovis or Jar-Jar Binks episode, making the season a complete upgrade from ones past. It’s refreshing. It actually makes me wish the season was longer, showing more of the conflict, but I guess Disney wanted to get this out of the way. Especially when, factoring in the pilot movie, this whole show is roughly 47 hours long. That’s almost 2 days’ worth of binging. Think about that for a minute.

Nevertheless, if you had to waste 47 hours of your life on a show, then you could definitely do much worse. Especially with the two, “unofficial” endings being as compelling as the “official” one. Because you’re still getting Star Wars. And Star Wars is always a treat.

It’s all-the-more fitting that I caved and binged this season on May 4th, the unofficial day of Star Wars in general. Because while much of the fanbase was arguing over which Star Wars is “good Star Wars”, or expressing how toxic the fans are, I was catching up on a favourite series of mine that I only really started about 5 years ago. That might make me a “late fan of the show”, but better now than never! I mean, what else was I going to watch?

Anyway, this is a fitting resolution to this 133 episode series + a movie. It’s one I whole-heartedly recommend to fans, and it’s available to watch on Disney+. It may not be “the best Star Wars content out there”, even, but it’s worth it. I mean that sincerely.

I guess this is why Star Wars has endured: it has different connections to different people. For some, The Original Trilogy is Star Wars, nothing more. For others, The Prequels get factored into that. Still others get a rush out of The Sequels. And then there are fans of the ancillary material, of which this qualifies. Me, personally? I get a kick out of all of it, especially when you have a show that’s as good as many of the films that’ve inspired it. It’s to be expected when you have talented individuals on an ambitious and long-running series like Star Wars: The Clone Wars.

So yes, watch Season 7. Now, should I stream Season 1 of The Mandalorian before my trial of Disney+ expires too, or should I hold off until I can afford a subscription? Decisions, decisions!