(Our chat begins now.)
How's COVIDtine treating you all? I know I've probably asked that question verbatim at this point, but since we're still technically in quarantine I feel it pertinent to ask.
Anyway, with all of the stress of reality kicking in slowly and surely, I figured I'd take this time to tackle another entry on my bucket list for this time period. Everyone's been doing it, and with the fate of Soul currently up in the air, I guess now's a good time to rank Pixar's 22 films so far for you all. But not alone, though. Say hello to an old friend of mine who I haven't actually collaborated with since early 2016. Welcome JHawk99!
Hi Whitly, thanks for having me! Was it really all the way back in 2016 when we went over Star Wars: The Clone Wars together? Man, time really flies. I've gotten a lot better at writing since then, glad to collaborate with you on another project.
Yeah, January 21st, 2016 is when it went live on my blog. Good times...
To clarify, we're ranking our picks from worst to best here. I don't know any of his, he doesn't know any of mine, which should make this fun and interesting. You ready?
Absolutely!
Alrighty then! Let's kick this off with our #22 entry:
Cars 2 feels simultaneously like a no-brainer and an unfair swipe at Pixar. It's Cars 2! I honestly have a bit of guilt ranking this so low because while it's technically not "good", it's also not the worst thing ever. I think that if it were any other studio than Pixar, it'd probably just be meh.
I mean, I like the premise in theory, and I think the Cars franchise is a good one to choose for a spy thriller premise (the opening chase scene alone is proof of that). I also think using Mater as a vehicle (no pun intended) for not underestimating people is smart, even if Mater himself can be annoying to listen to for prolonged periods of time. But the movie itself meanders, the plot is thin and forced, the message is really preachy and the denouement leaves me scratching my head from all the questions it raises. So while I don't think it's unbearably awful, I completely agree with it being Pixar's worst movie to-date.
It really does feel unfair to start with Cars 2, but it'd be grasping at straws to try and place anything else from Pixar's catalogue in the #22 spot.
Yeah, especially since it's not a boring movie by any stretch of the imagination. But I'm also a sucker for good animation, and this definitely has it.
My thoughts exactly, Cars 2 has a lot of energy; it just lacks substance and feels significantly more "kiddie" than other Pixar films. It's the only time I ever sat in a theater to watch a Pixar movie as a teenager and thought "I don't belong here."
I'm guessing your #22 pick is the same, then?
It is, though I made a valiant effort to find another pick.
Might as well explain why then, even if it's kinda redundant.
Well, Cars 2, as a film, really isn't that bad. I actually enjoyed a lot of the narrative beats, the spy movie premise worked better than it had any right to, and there are some pretty disturbing implications for the Cars universe.
We deal with some pretty heady themes such as: car ableism, car murder, and car...veganism? That are genuinely interesting ideas. My biggest gripe with the movie is how little trust Lightning has in Mater, despite the entire moral of the first Cars movie also being not to judge a book by its cover. For all of its shiny new gadgets and Japanese toilet jokes, Cars 2 treads the same thematic ground as its predecessor. Unfortunately, Pixar is prone to this shortcoming in their sequels...
I remember one of the cars from the first movie being a hippie, so it's not exactly "new" to discuss that here. I also think that while Pixar sequels often do retread in places, this one does so while also not being terribly inspired about it.
I actually remember there being behind-the-scenes complications that led to a director change as well.
Alright, I suppose it's my go for #21 then?
Yep.
Coolio.
My pick for #21 on our list is: The Good Dinosaur, the only Pixar movie so boring I stopped watching it the first time I saw it.
This one would easily be below Cars 2 if it wasn't so gosh darn pretty to look at. There are good ideas in here, but the execution is...let’s just say it's muddled? I was actually really excited for this one when it was announced, it looked like it was going to be a very unique journey of self-discovery and visual story telling. Ultimately, I just couldn't connect with Arlo and that's what really did it in for me.
Wow, didn't expect that! I have a bit of a soft spot for The Good Dinosaur in spite of its flaws, but we'll cover that later.
I'm curious what exactly did it in about Arlo, though. Care to elaborate?
I have a bit of a thing against emotionally manipulative story-telling. A large marketing point of The Good Dinosaur was how real every scrape and bruise on Arlo and Spot looked as they went on their journey together. The Good Dinosaur is a movie in which two children bond over communal suffering. I would have liked to see Arlo be likeable because of the depth of his character and his personality, and not because he's cute and he gets hurt...a lot. Which is emphasized by how good the sound design for this movie is. Every impact, slip, or scrabble feels real. Real painful, too.
Fair enough. I guess I'm also a sucker for certain things that the movie did well.
In keeping with the theme for my bottom entry, #21 for me is Cars 3.
Despite being a massive improvement over its predecessor, Cars 3 also feels like a darker, retreaded book-end of Cars. It's grittier and sadder, probably the saddest entry in the franchise, and I like how it ties into Doc's accident with Lightning's accident at the beginning and how that makes him feel obsolete, but that's only the beginning of it.
I kinda find it annoying how every Cars movie save the second is ridiculously slow and draggy. I also don't like how the ageist jokes keep getting rammed in our faces (get it, Lightning is past his prime?) and the relationship with his trainer, though nice, kinda comes off as embarrassing as someone who did work with a PTA weekly until COVID hit. Like seriously, shouldn't one of the requirements of being a car trainer be that you can race yourself? It seems like a no-brainer.
I do like the final race, though. That was great.
Cars definitely hamstrung itself on its premise. Having a movie where every character is, well, a car, really constricts the kind of story telling you can do to genre films that involve...well, cars!
That said, I think that making a movie about an old athlete is the logical conclusion to the Cars trilogy, and I respect the attempt to make a serious Cars movie.
Yeah. It's tried and true, and arguably overdone, but I guess it makes sense.
#20 is the only place left for me to go: Cars.
It's the most thematically boring of the trilogy, but it definitely has the best story of them all. And while I know that it's "a rip-off of Doc Hollywood" with cars instead of people, it's still very well-executed. I especially like the final race in the movie, and how its lesson about selflessness is one that I can buy into even if it's predictable and tired.
Still, its premise is really simple and the middle feels like filler. I remember not getting the hate the first time I saw it, but reflection has shown the cracks in the foundation. And it has lots of them! But I guess there wasn't much you could've done with a movie about talking cars, even if its original song at the end is absolutely phenomenal (seriously!)
Man, how soft a spot do you have for The Good Dinosaur?
You'll see.
Anyway, what's your #20 pick?
Something controversial.
I'm all ears.
My #20 pick is actually Brave.
We've talked a lot about the shortcoming of Cars, but like you just said for Cars and Cars 3, while their concepts are hackneyed and tired, they are well executed and cohesive. The same cannot be said of Brave. Brave is a movie where the whole is less than the sum of its parts. I loved the setting, I loved some of the characters, I loved the animation, I loved the art direction. Brave had massive potential to be a great adventure movie...and then we got Mother Bear.
I fail to see the controversy here, since a lot of people don't like it.
But the people who do like this movie absolutely adore it.
I'm actually conflicted on Brave, but we'll get to that eventually. It's just interesting hearing how people keep thinking they're dropping a grenade by putting it so low, only for it to be a dud because so many people agree.
Then again, I remember once getting shit from someone on Twitter for saying it wasn't so great, so...maybe.
Leave flowers at my grave after the mob burns me at the stake.
I'll keep that in mind!
Anyway, your turn.
Right-O!
My #19 actually is going to be Cars 3.
It's an improvement over Cars 2, but it doesn't have the novelty that Cars had, and I really can't justify it going any higher. It's a movie we've all seen before, many times, about the old dog getting back in the game "one last time." It's good, not great, not much more to it than that.
Basically, although I'm surprised you like it more than I do. I should also note that Lightning McQueen's paint-job actually creeps me out in that movie, and I'm glad he sheds it before the finale.
Oh? Why's that?
I can't quite articulate it, but it doesn't feel like him. It'd be like an actor wearing the skin colour of another race in my mind, it feels dirty.
Yet another thing Cars 3 never elaborates on. Whether or not paint is analogous to clothing...or skin?
Yeah...
My #19 is probably gonna insult a few people, but I won't lie: it's Monsters, U.
I get that this is the "college frat boy" movie from Pixar, but it's probably the first Pixar movie to actively bore me for most of its runtime. The ending scene is great, and the message is (while dubious in this economy) nice for those who feel like school isn't for them, but everything else feels like a lame prequel to a great movie. Plus, it retcons Mike and Sully's relationship, and Randall's sudden turn from good to evil feels cheap and stupid.
Gotta give it up to that end scene again, though. If any effort went into this movie, it was definitely in Sully scaring the adult humans.
I knew Monsters, U was going to be on the bottom half of this list, but I'm surprised to see it so low on yours. I thought some of the action set-pieces were inventive, and I enjoyed the idea of Monster College way more than I ever expected. This was one of those movies I thought I'd totally pass over that I have a soft spot for.
And now you know my stance on The Good Dinosaur. Though, to be honest, part of my disdain for this one could also be that the theatre was mostly empty by the time I got to it (I saw it at a matinee showing a month and a half late.)
I saw it in full for the first time on syndication.
I was also 23 when it came out, and still in university at the time. So if any Pixar movie should've spoken to me, it was that one. But it felt more like an 80's college movie than a contemporary one.
Now that, that is a legitimate criticism. Monsters, U is not grounded in the modern day college experience at all. I think I would have been much harsher on it had it not taken place in a universe so far removed from our own.
Kinda makes me want a Monsters, Community College movie, now that you mention it.
Hah!
#18 will probably shock a few people with how high it is, but I'm going with Brave here.
Why? Because despite how misleading it was, or even how much trouble went on behind-the-scenes (seriously, what happened to Brenda Chapman's vision?), the movie's theme of parental-child disenfranchisement is one that anyone with a rocky relationship with their parents (like I did at the time) can relate to. If anything, Merida's rekindling with her mother is what makes this movie not fall into further mediocrity.
Still, I don't think it's great. It may look and sound amazing, and I like how it touches on Scottish history, but a lot of the side characters are annoying and shallow, and the whole thread with the Queen becoming a bear is basically Brother Bear 2.0. I seriously think that having too many writers and directors actually hurt this, as it's a real mess!
I was wondering how much higher you were going to let Brave go. I definitely agree about the relationship between Merida and her mother being compelling, but it was bogged down by The Queen's inability to speak for the majority of the film. The message reads less as "seek inter-generational compromise," and more "put the opposing party in a position where they literally can't communicate with you so they have to acquiesce," and that doesn't really sit right with me.
I guess what I'm trying to say is: if you're going to make a movie about talking to your parents, the parental characters should probably be capable of human speech.
I guess I'm also a little biased because: a. One of my cousin's friends looked just like Merida at the time. b. I was late in asserting my independence. and c. The ending made me cry.
Oh, I absolutely have some biased picks on this list.
I'm sure you do. What's your #18 pick?
A biased pick. Coming in at #18 on my list: Incredibles 2.
Go on...
This one really soured over time for me. I loved it the first time I saw it, and it got progressively less fun with each repeated viewing. A lot of the action is very well directed, but it doesn't have the same feeling of scale as its predecessor. I didn't like the twist villain, I thought a lot of the thematic elements, (like Bob learning to appreciate his wife) weren't explored with the same level of nuance or creativity as we had seen in The Incredibles, and it has a blatant disregard for people with epilepsy. (Editor's note: click with caution.)
I was also going through a rough breakup at the time, so it’s not a film I like to revisit given the chance; though that doesn't necessarily have any impact on what I think of the film.
It seems like the Pixar film that prompted a trigger warning also happens to be really divisive. (Though I personally think that it's better than many people give it credit.) Sorry about the breakup, though.
Bah, water under the bridge! I think this movie really struggled with expectation. The Incredibles was a very tough act to follow, and waiting fourteen years to do it doesn't help the sequel's case. As you'll see later on this list, Brad Bird has directed some of my favorite Pixar films, so I was a little disappointed to see him make something so...milquetoast.
I could also be partial because I hated Tomorrowland so much, and this was an improvement on many fronts...
Tomorrowland. There's a discussion for another time.
No need, I've already ranted about it.
You and everybody else on the planet. Myself included.
Damon Lindelof isn't a good writer, Hollywood! Sheesh!
Anywho, moving on to my next pick.
Coming in at #17 on my list: Cars.
Yes, I'm putting the first Cars movie above Incredibles 2. Fight me. This movie's concept has definitely not aged well, but this thing was a merchandising titan back in good old '06.
I have a bit of a nostalgic soft spot for this one, it was a novel concept at the time, and it strikes a tonal balance that its sequels (and spinoffs) failed to capture. It didn't take itself too seriously, but it didn't take itself too lightly, either. It had, in my opinion, an incredibly likeable cast of side characters. Despite some of this movie's uglier flaws (like sexism). I really enjoyed Radiator Springs before it turned into an oversaturated tourist trap with sequels and Mater shorts.
Life is a highway, amirite? Also, if Pixar's gonna make money to fund their other, better ventures, it'd make sense to do it with this one. It's also kinda interesting how all three Cars movies came out before or after big hits.
Hey, say what you will, but that song is a bop. And make money they did! Following Cars, Pixar made some of their most poignant, experimental, and beautiful films to date.
What's even more interesting is that the Cars sequels actually feel more inspired than other non-Toy Story continuations. They may not have been, y'know...good; but somehow the movie designed to sell you cute Hot Wheels had more personality than something like, well, Incredibles 2.
By the way, Cars still has one of John Ratzenberger's best lines in a Pixar movie (it's when he calls out his cameos in the post-credits sequences.)
I'd fight you about that statement, but I'll let my list speak for itself.
I am very interested to see your opinions on some of my spicier takes.
Duly noted.
My #17 pick is The Good Dinosaur.
"What?! That high?!?!" Calm down. I know it's not great. But I have a soft-spot for some of the jokes (including that trippy fruit sequence) and the underlying theme of learning to fend for yourself while still being yourself. The movie has a lot of heart to it, and while it's jarring when you juxtapose the photorealistic backgrounds with the cartoony designs, I think Arlo and Spot are fun characters in their own right.
I think I'm also biased because this is my version of The Land Before Time with the "dead relative" point. Y'see, I'd almost lost my dad the year before to a massive heart attack, so that anxiety was still fresh in my mind. That, and the resolution for Spot was quite touching.
But yeah, it's not great. It's weird how of the two Pixar movies to release in 2015, this is the one that didn't come together. Especially since both movies went through major production Hell.
I mean, you don't agree with me, so obviously you need to be burnt at the stake.
I'll get the marshmallows!
That's very kind of you. We'll be coming back around to a lot of points you just brought up in some of my later entries. Like the other Pixar film from 2015, emotionally manipulative storytelling, and dead relatives! (Oh my!)
The movie definitely does have heart, though, I will absolutely give you that.
I wonder where this is going...
#16 is A Bug’s Life, which frequently gets pitted against Antz in a culture war.
I was debating between this and my #15 pick, but this one lost out slightly because even though it's a cute movie, most of its characters are bland, forgettable, or both. It also borrows way too heavily from Seven Samurai and Aesop's fables, and it shows in its premise. It's also hard to stomach Hopper these days knowing what we know about Kevin Spacey...
I was very curious where A Bug’s Life would place with you because of its complicated history. I personally quite enjoy it, but it's a difficult film to judge fairly with everything we know about its troubled production history and, of course, Kevin Spacey being a garbage person.
I disagree on the inspiration from Seven Samurai as a negative, but we'll come back to that when it shows up on my list.
To be fair, I do still like it. But I just like Antz a tad more, as it takes more risks and better executes its premise despite meandering a lot (and that Woody Allen is also a garbage person.)
Man, what is it with terrible people and being involved with these two movies?
That's nothing! You should see what John Lasseter was like!
I was referring to him as well.
Yeah...
...Yeah.
Anyway, I'm sure your #16 will make me angry, but go ahead anyway.
Oh, it absolutely will. My #16 is Monsters, U, the film nobody asked for and that I somehow wound up kinda liking.
I don't think anybody expected this one to be good, I can't name a single person who was like "gee willikers, am I excited to see Mike and Sully share a bunk bed!" But it actually had a lot of fun with its premise, and I could see why it was worth going back to the Monsters Universe. Sure, there were some minor retcons, but I thought it was interesting to see how monster society affected the classic "college movie" tropes; even if that genre is from an era long gone by Monsters, U's release.
I'm not angry, just disappointed.
See, just like this movie, I'm defying expectations.
I guess I'm the cynic, because, like I said earlier, I didn't connect with it despite it being made for me. It actually kinda annoyed me in places, though, again, that final scene where Sully and Mike scare those adults was brilliant!
I don't really think this movie was made for college kids of the 2010s. I personally took it as being meant for people closer to Mike and Sully's age in the first movie, who grew up with this image of the college experience in their media.
The short made about this movie was much better, but whatever.
(To be continued in Part 2…)
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