Let's Talk About Thanos: A Response

I like Mikey Neumann’s videos. I don’t watch a ton of them, but I’ve seen a few here-and-there and appreciate his style. I especially like his Lessons Animation Taught Us piece, as it’s inspired some really strong responses, and his piece on why The MCU works so well, for obvious reasons. I initially wanted my first response to Mikey be on the former, but after two revisions and no progress, I gave up. Besides, I think that his latest, on why Thanos from The Avengers: Infinity War bugs him, deserves more immediate attention. And while I won’t outright attack him over it, I feel that a semi-rebuttal’s in order.

Be warned, major spoilers!

I’ll start with the two points I agree with. For one, I don’t think the writers and directors romanticizing Thanos is healthy. Not so much in-movie, I’ll cover that later, but more behind-the-scenes. Mikey splices footage of the Russos, one of the writers and Josh Brolin himself talking about how Thanos is a “hero”, and that his actions are understandable. To insinuate that Thanos is heroic is creepy and awful. Thanos may be sympathetic, in a twisted way, but heroic he’s not. And given how I’ve had uncomfortable conversations with people who believe that, I feel that it’s a disservice to paint him as one.

I also don’t like how Peter Quill refers to Gamora as “my girl” when looking for her after she’s taken by Thanos. As Mikey pointed out, Quill’s arc in the Guardians of the Galaxy movies has been about him learning to treat himself, and others, with respect. Considering we’d last seen him coming to terms with the death of his adoptive father-figure, and that this movie has Gamora ask him to make a difficult sacrifice, the infantilized remark feels like a massive step backward. I don’t agree on Mikey’s claim that Quill punching Thanos in rage is also bad, but I’ll cover that later.

With all of that being said, let’s talk about Thanos.

I don’t want to completely shatter Mikey’s concerns here. He should be concerned, as should everyone else. Like I said earlier, Thanos is no hero. His motivation is to reduce the population of every galaxy by half, so as to prevent over-population and wasted resources. This makes zero sense, especially since the population can easily bounce back, but he routinely ignores reason. He’s clearly made up his mind, making him scary and destructive.

And the movie reminds us of how destructive Thanos really is. It reminds us each time he obtains an Infinity Stone, and it reminds us with how he obtains them. He shows no remorse in torturing others for information. He murders in cold-blood frequently. He even, near the end, uses The Time Stone to undo Wanda’s actions and revive Vision, only to murder him again by ripping The Mind Stone, or his conscience, from his forehead. Thanos is a egomaniacal megalomaniac, and he’s a violent abuser to-boot.

It’s no accident that Thanos’s design, right down to stripping most of his armour in the beginning, is meant to evoke the image of an abusive parental figure: Thanos tortures Thor and Nebula in front of their siblings to get information about The Space Stone and The Soul Stone, even murdering Loki and Gamora when he sees no more use for them. Gamora’s death is especially painful to watch, and it’s supposed to be: like real-life abusers, Gamora’s death rings home with toxic love.

Let me reiterate that: Gamora’s death rings home with toxic love. Gamora’s relationship with Thanos is akin to that a victim with their toxic lover/parent: Gamora hates Thanos, yet she craves his affection. She wants him dead for murdering her mother, yet she feels guilty when she believes she’s avenged her. Even her death, being tossed off a cliff on Voromir as a sacrifice for The Soul Stone, is tragic because she’s being abused by her adoptive father. Even if we know that he “loves her”, which isn’t uncommon for abusers, he still gives her up to get what he wants. It might be uncomfortable to watch for Mikey, and I get it, but it’s not unlike how many real, toxic relationships play out. We’ve even seen it somewhat in other movies, like in Tangled and I, Tonya.

Thanos’s abuse extends to how he views others. He calls Gamora, a fully-grown adult, “little one”. He refers to Peter Parker as an “insect”. He patronizingly says to Quill, a fully-grown man, “I like you” when he tries intervening with his abduction of Gamora. The only character he shows some level of respect to is Tony Stark, but even then he considers him a rival and not a friend. To Thanos, everyone’s either a pawn or a child that needs reprimanding. And, again, that’s supposed to make people uncomfortable.

I think this is what holds the movie together. Thanos is the protagonist, yes, and he thinks he’s doing what’s right, but he’s not the hero. He’s no more heroic than the protagonist in Shadow of the Colossus, in that we root for him while simultaneously reviling his behaviour. As Thanos collects The Infinity Stones, the first of which he already has by the film’s opening, we revel in the horror of the destruction he leaves. We’re supposed to be angry that he’s ruined the ending of Thor: Ragnarok by slaughtering the Asgardian refugees, and that he robs Quill of his decision from Gamora. And we’re supposed to bite our nails in fear when he stabs Stark straight through the chest on Titan, almost killing him, only to witness Dr. Strange surrendering The Time Stone in exchange for his life.

But perhaps the biggest critique, one many people have expressed, is also part of the point: Quill messing up the plan to remove Thanos’s glove by angrily punching him over Gamora’s death. It’s upsetting, yes, but it’s also completely in-character. Ignoring his growth prior, he’s still an impulsive man-child. Considering that acting impulsively has worked before, it makes sense that he’d try it again, right? (As a side-note, this has been covered more extensively in a video by Bob Chipman.)

One area I think Mikey should’ve touched on, and it’s a missed opportunity, is the film’s use of score to illustrate its darker moments. Alan Silvestri returns from The Avengers, taking what he started there and adding to it: the main theme feels more energized, true, but there are additional tracks that are equally-effective. I think my favourite is the sad piece used when Thanos tosses Gamora off the cliff, but even the ominous tracks, which transform into a powerful crescendo at the end, that undercut Thanos’s Infinity Stone acquisitions are really powerful. I know Tony Zhou once made a video where he argued that The MCU takes no musical risks, but this is something that absolutely warrants attention.

But I think the part that got to me most in Mikey’s video is him mentioning that “we learned the wrong lessons from Empire” on several occasions. He’s, of course, referring to how Star Wars Ep. V: The Empire Strikes Back messes with franchise expectations by ending on a bittersweet note, and how all big blockbusters with a dark vibe copy that without understanding why. I think that does a disservice to The Avengers: Infinity War as a whole: similarly to how last year’s Star Wars: The Last Jedi openly flipped expectations on their head for Star Wars, this movie does that for Marvel movies. We expect everything to go right in the end and our heroes to save the day, so when they don’t…

Besides, I do think the movie ends on somewhat of a hopeful note: in the post-credits scene, we see Nick Fury call for help right as he evaporates. The final image is of Captain Marvel’s logo, followed by upbeat music, hinting that she’s the answer. It’s frustrating that we have to wait until next year to see this downer of an ending resolved, but Star Wars fans had to wait three years until Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi.

I really don’t feel that The Avengers: Infinity War should be chalked up as “irresponsible”. We’ve had 18 movies of build-up, and we’ve known that Thanos has been coming for over half-a-decade. Given how Marvel movies have been repeatedly scrutinized for being “formulaic” and “repetitive”, shouldn’t it make sense to shake up the formula? Audiences don’t want another “save the day” plot, as that’s been overdone. So long as it feels earned, which I think this does, why not try a downer?

That said, if there’s one point Mikey raises that does bug me somewhat, it’s that the next movie has the potential to undo everything. But I’m sure Marvel’s aware of that; after all, not only are comics notorious for retconning deaths all the time, but it’d be lazy to blatantly “fix” everything without trade-offs. I sincerely hope that sacrifices are made to bring back the “dead” characters, and that they aren’t cheap. And I sincerely hope these events have consequences in Phase 4.

I’m not trying to shamelessly call out Mikey: he’s explicitly stated why The Avengers: Infinity War bothers him so much, and I respect that. If he doesn’t love the movie, that’s fine. But I do think he’s projecting ever-so-slightly, and that worries me. I’d take it up with him in the comments on his YouTube video, but since he’s disabled them…well, I guess I’ll do it here. I only hope that he actually reads this.